PS4

For the rest of the gaming world.
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Features I currently know about:
Stream PS1, PS2, PS3 games
Bigger, Stronger, Faster
Super easy to record and share video
Control has a touch screen region

Will the PS3 be able to play PS4 games?

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I think it won't play ps3 games, just stream them?

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It's strange that they didn't even appear to show what it looks like. I didn't watch the whole thing, only like, 5 minutes of the presentation. But from what I read in reviews afterwords, no console appearance, no price, and no release date. Just a technology preview.

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man that controller aesthetic sure is barfy

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they "hope" it'll be under 599 USD

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If it's not a reasonable price ($400 or less), I think they can look forward to another several years of being behind Microsoft. At this point, Sony'll have to pull off something amazing to pull ahead of Microsoft... or Microsoft will have to do something terminally stupid to fall behind Sony. Microsoft has the US install base - the 360 is the new Wii (in that everyone can have one for cheap). If Sony doesn't find a way to pull that install base away... they're not going to.

The way I see it, multiple factors from this list will need to fall into place for Sony to pull ahead:
-The PS4 magically launches this year, the Xbox 3 launches next year (At the very least the PS4 does not launch later)
-The PS4 launches for $400 or less AND costs no more than the Xbox 3
-Revamp, upgrade, and protect the PSN to be on par with XBL and find some way to prove that to people before the system launches
-The PS4 is more powerful than the Xbox 3
-LAUNCH TITLES. THE MUST-HAVE KIND.
-Aesthetics.

I think the streaming thing is a pretty bad idea - *maybe*. It's terrible in the sense that, "That's a mighty nice collection of discs you've got there. It would be a shame if something prevented you from playing them anymore. Oh, wait." It seems like a very poor attempt to ensure that they have more than a very few viable launch games. I'm sure you're going to have to re-buy them (although I'm assuming PSN titles you've bought will carry over). This doesn't seem like a good deal for anyone - you can't pick up a cheap copy at a store to enjoy solid last-gen titles after you've beaten the launch ones and are waiting for the new ones to come out, and you have to make sure you have a network connection that will let you stream, and stream well. I haven't heard much about OnLive recently, but if that works okay... well, maybe this could too. I doubt this streaming thing would work well on my school's network, though - I have enough trouble with Netflix. Furthermore, you lack a physical copy of the game (which some people might be okay with). Beyond this... what is their library going to look like? Everything that's available on the PSN for download now? There're quite a few games that would be fantastic to play, but are very obviously missing.

If they get all of it right, though... the streaming technology works well, the games are reasonably priced and/or have good sales, and a good selection of good titles are available AT launch (no delayed release, Sony!)... then I can see this being a boon for the system.

Maybe with this streaming tech, they can get games up and running that won't currently run on the PS3, opening the doors up for a much better library of titles, especially from the PS2 catalog.

I wonder... maybe if a player/owner of one game came over to a friend's house... he and the friend could play it together, even if it weren't tied to Friend's PSN account? Maybe some kind of controller-account binding? (Or not, I can see that having a lot of drawbacks.)

Man... there're a lot of what-ifs in there... and Sony doesn't seem to be very good with those.

Either way, I'm getting some Sega Dreamcast vibes here... not quite the same situations, but there's very much a sense of "wait and see" going on that could kill one or more companies' consoles.

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I'd say I'm a lot more optimistic for Sony. Of all my Xbox games, only the Halo franchise are exclusives. XBL Gold is terrific, but I don't use it anywhere near as much as I used to. Bungie is putting exclusive features in Destiny on PS4, and that alone has me interested.

As far as Streaming Media, we all know what happened to OnLive. They developed their technology and waited. And waited. When they finally launched, they were still ahead of the market. As time passes, Sony's acquisition of Gaikai is only going to prove more and more valuable. I agree it's not going to be a blockbuster out the door, but this console is going to last 6 years and I expect the future of broadband access/capability, especially in Japan and major cities in the US to improve greatly. Another thing is that it's promoted for PS1,2,3 games. They removed BC in the PS3 and it seemed like it went over very smoothly.

I think Sony will meet their release date in '13, and a first mover advantage is going to be huge, especially if it's anything like the 360's foothold. Of course it won't be without launch titles, but significant regardless. Release this year at $600 for the high spec model and include a game or similar promotion next year when Xbox 3 comes out and bam, very competitive.

It sounds like they're trying to fix PSN with the social features, but like you said, they really can't half-ass it if they want to make a difference. Get ready for a shitton of high res youtube gameplay videos. Bye bye shaky cam!

@ Eyetoy, touchscreen controller: meh

@ Device display / control: GG Wii U. Tablets will overtake Laptops in popularity in the US by 2016, and nobody is going to want to shell out for a low grade Wii U tablet when they can get an iPad/Nexus/Surface instead.

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I like your response, Ray. Can't say I agree with the whole thing, but I like it.


I don't use XBL much either. However, there are millions and millions of people who do, many of whom will want to keep going with the friends they have on this network rather than switching to a new one and hoping everyone else does as well.

Exclusive features for games are nice, but they're no deal-sealers, especially when it comes to dropping money on a whole new system.

I hope Sony manages to release this year - for their sakes. The PS3's release doesn't do much for that hope, though, as the PS3 kept getting pushed back, and back, and back... at least this time they're using discrete components rather than designing and fabricating them all from the ground up. Should make things easier.

Do we know that the Xbox 3 isn't coming out this year? The fact that they haven't officially announced anything yet might indicate that... but they could just be waiting for E3.

I can't say I know enough about how OnLive is faring to understand your reference. I haven't been following them. The fact that I haven't heard anything about them makes me wonder, though.

I agree that the connection of Gaikai is going to help overall, but I was talking about it not likely being very useful for selling consoles at launch... and launch will likely determine a lot of the future success of the system.

Social features are nice, and I can see them being used by some... but I don't see it becoming any type of revolution. I wish I had a Wii U to explore Miiverse, though... that might give me a better idea of how people are taking to social media integrated into a dedicated game system. I refuse to use Facebook as a reference, as it's a social media network with gaming integrated into it.

When I was talking about fixing the PSN, I was referring to making it, in some ways, more like XBL. Cross-game chat, ease of drop-in-drop-out, more security (no more hacker scares), better monitoring, better integration, faster, more consistent interface. Social features are a neat add-in, but they don't count as repairs. You need to fix the backbone before you change the frontend, or else it's like putting a fresh coat of paint on a wall that's about to collapse.

$600 is simply too high. Sony MUST learn this lesson from the last time. Even if they make it out of the gate first, while they'll sell a few more consoles, they'll end up with the same situation as the PS3 - other than the initial buy-up, they'll have systems sitting in stores, waiting to move. With all the less expensive options there just isn't a way to justify that high of an up-front cost. Microsoft hit the perfect point at $300/400 back in 2005. High, so that many people held off, but low enough that many people could afford to go ahead and take the plunge.

You have to remember that there's a huge horde of Xbox fanboys out there, and unless Sony manages to make their system enticing enough from a price/games/features standpoint (emphasis on the price), they'll just wait the extra year so that they can have their HALO 5 and such. If Microsoft releases later and Sony launches at $600, Microsoft will have a good advantage with pricing - memories of the 360 launching at the $300/400 price mark and silence about the cost of the new system will allow them time to ease their customers into whatever price point they target.

I'm not against the PS4, really. I'd like to have one. If I'm going to pick up a non-Nintendo game console this generation, it's highly unlikely to be Microsoft's offering. Also, I like to collect RPGs, and Sony is the company that tends to get those.

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OnLive and Gaikai are basically the same thing, game streaming service. OnLive almost went bankrupt but some rich dude bought them and fired everyone except the old owner and a few of his friends (the whole thing seemed suspect to me). The critical reception of both was that internet speeds simply weren't fast enough to support most of the games at a satisfactory level.

I have no idea about XB3, haven't even heard rumors. Not really expecting it this year, but a teaser at E3 wouldn't be out of the question.

Pretty much agreed on the PSN situation. I just don't understand why it's taking everyone so long to realize why XBL and Steam are so superior. Hoping they don't push PSN+ too hard, even though the benefits really are getting more and more attractive.

As for 600... I think they can pull it off. It might negate a first-mover advantage, but I think it'd be more good than bad. Sure it was bad last time, but $599 2006 dollars is worth like $650+ 2013 dollars (CPI calc). On the other hand, the blu-ray playing capability was a major feature back then... not anymore. $500 would be better. In fact, considering how much power they're jamming into this thing, I think that would be a killer deal. 8GB of GDDR5!

Good point on the xbox loyalty. But for me, PS4 is already my favorite for the next gen (until zelda or smash comes out).

There were reports that the PS3 surpassed the 360 in units shipped last month, but of course that doesn't mean sold. I think 360 really dominated the 2nd half of this generation (with Wii winning the first half) in terms of mindshare and customer perception.

One trend that might be interesting is how publishers are making their own networks. Ubisoft has UPlay, EA has Origin, more could come into play and hurt Sony/Nintendo's ability to create useful networks like MS has with XBL. Kind of a random thought, but I figured I'd toss it into the convo.

What has me most excited about the new Xbox and Playstation is that with more power, not only can developers enhance graphics, but they can include more and more objects/characters/projectiles on screen and have better physics, lighting and effects. We might not think about computing throughput directly relating to gameplay, but it really can be an important factor.

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Ray wrote:Will the PS3 be able to play PS4 games?
Not directly, you have to use Cloud gaming with that.
Warp2063 wrote:-The PS4 magically launches this year
That's actually happening, they said at the conference that the plan was Holiday this year.
Warp2063 wrote:although I'm assuming PSN titles you've bought will carry over
That's actually not happening. Sorry.
Ray wrote:Tablets will overtake Laptops in popularity in the US by 2016, and nobody is going to want to shell out for a low grade Wii U tablet when they can get an iPad/Nexus/Surface instead.
Oh totally, assuming major gaming companies go that route and release their high-level games on their tablets.

I can see the graphics and power getting much better on tablets as time goes by but I'm not seeing gaming suddenly shift over to the tablets. Even if tablets become more powerful than the Wii U (which could happen soon if it hasn't happened already) people who want to play high quality games are going to the gaming consoles, not just the Wii U. Unless tablet gaming just gets a massive increase in popularity I can't see the market shifting at all.
Ray wrote:What has me most excited about the new Xbox and Playstation is that with more power, not only can developers enhance graphics, but they can include more and more objects/characters/projectiles on screen and have better physics, lighting and effects. We might not think about computing throughput directly relating to gameplay, but it really can be an important factor.
Oh boy, new graphics, more projectiles and better lighting. That's what gaming needs, more fancy lights.

You know what I want to see? More unique gaming experiences that don't rely on a massive amount of "polygons". I watched the entire Sony conference and just hated every minute of it. Why? Because it was just a suped up PS3. Hell, everything I saw looked like it was on the PS3. That's the problem; graphics are slowly but surely reaching a peak. When they showed off their tech demo with the 30,000 polygons showed by that old man, they mentioned that with that many polygons you can really get the emotions from him. But...that's just it. Sony already has all of the power they need to show emotions. They've had it for years now.

Honestly after watching the full conference I just felt like nothing was really being added to the great foundation they already have. More graphical power is certainly nice but it's not necessary to create a truly immersive game. A touchpad and Eyetoy? What do you need those for, the Move works fine with motion controls already. Social integration? I'll give you that, I like the idea, but it doesn't really do much for the game itself. More graphics? I guess that's cool. I can't even think of anything else.

Waiting for E3 to offer a less biased response because right now I just don't see anything new. It's just the same, perfectly fine PS3 with a few extra features. I want something more.

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Afrohawk52 wrote:
Warp2063 wrote:although I'm assuming PSN titles you've bought will carry over
That's actually not happening. Sorry.
Do you have a Source on that?

Afrohawk52 wrote: Waiting for E3 to offer a less biased response because right now I just don't see anything new. It's just the same, perfectly fine PS3 with a few extra features. I want something more.
I guess that's why we're Nintendo fans. Other than the obvious technical advancements, there hasn't been many big innovations from Sony and Microsoft (dual analog sticks and accessible online play are all that come to mind). There's a market for new things and there's still a market for the tried and true. I'd also bet on add-ons (like there was this generation with Move/Kinect) coming out for both PS4 and XBoxStupidname. They'll react to the market instead trying to lead it. That's safer for them.

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Afrohawk52 wrote:
Ray wrote:Will the PS3 be able to play PS4 games?
Not directly, you have to use Cloud gaming with that.
For everyone's info, this was a joke, not a typo.
Afrohawk52 wrote:
Ray wrote:Tablets will overtake Laptops in popularity in the US by 2016, and nobody is going to want to shell out for a low grade Wii U tablet when they can get an iPad/Nexus/Surface instead.
Oh totally, assuming major gaming companies go that route and release their high-level games on their tablets.

I can see the graphics and power getting much better on tablets as time goes by but I'm not seeing gaming suddenly shift over to the tablets. Even if tablets become more powerful than the Wii U (which could happen soon if it hasn't happened already) people who want to play high quality games are going to the gaming consoles, not just the Wii U. Unless tablet gaming just gets a massive increase in popularity I can't see the market shifting at all.
I think you misunderstood me. I meant in addition to a game console. Most families would prefer to have iPad+360/PS4 than GamePad+WiiU. The power of the tablet is irrelevant, and the same functionality the WiiU GamePad exhibits is possible on any independent tablet.

Nintendo took a good step by outsourcing development of TVii, but they are still too big of control freaks to be competitive with the other manufacturers. Seriously, they have no business making tablets. At this point their only competitive advantage in the living room is their first party titles (the IPs of which are getting stale). Rayman Legends isn't even going to be an exclusive anymore because the other consoles have tablet connectivity.

And RE: Graphics, I wasn't talking about polygons, I was talking about objects and physics. I think you know I wouldn't be here if I thought graphical detail was a top determinant of a game's quality. Way too many times I've heard developers explain why an awesome feature was left out because of hardware limitations. That's actually the reason lots of Nintendo games don't have local multiplayer. I didn't watch the press conference, and I believe you that it was all more of the same. I was just imagining a puzzle game with fully detailed mirrors, an action game with more interactive environmental features, an abstract game with complex chain reactions, an adventure game without loading screens et cetera.

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Monkey wrote:
Afrohawk52 wrote:
Warp2063 wrote:although I'm assuming PSN titles you've bought will carry over
That's actually not happening. Sorry.
Do you have a Source on that?
I want to see Afrohawk's source as well. I believe that would be a monumentally stupid thing for Sony to do. If I've already bought all the Final Fantasy games on the PSN, I don't want to have to rebuy them just so I can play them on a new system, especially when I've already enjoyed the cross-compatibility of certain games on the PS3, PSP, and Vita.

Granted, there is something of a precedent for this right now. [sarcasm]Thanks a lot, Nintendo.[/sarcasm]

Afrohawk52 wrote:
Warp2063 wrote: -The PS4 magically launches this year
That's actually happening, they said at the conference that the plan was Holiday this year.
Oh, I know what they said. I know that's their plan. This was just my dig at their constant delays on the PS3. They've definitely got the incentive to get it out this time; they can't afford another late start.

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I heard the same thing about PSN titles as Afro. Here's an update from Shuhei Yoshida, president of Sony Worldwide Studios
Polygon wrote:"So there are two ways, emulation or cloud services. But native support, no. Sorry," Yoshida said. "No backwards compatibility. You can quote me on that," he said, acknowledging the headline-worthiness of the quote.

When asked if the aforementioned "cloud services" could work with your existing PSN library, recognizing your previous purchases and making those experiences available on the otherwise-incompatible PS4, Yoshida said, "We could do so if we choose to. We know who purchased what as a record. But we are working on service plans and we haven't decided."
We should petition

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I don't know if petitioning a Japanese corporation - especially Sony - as non-Japanese would do anything. We would need a Japanese movement, I think.

I think they'd really be shooting themselves in the foot if they didn't, as it would be one less reason to opt for their system - and they need all the positives they can get. I suspect that you'll have to pay a fee to stream, as that quote mentions service plans. However, if they made you re-buy those games on top of that...?

I suppose they could also follow the OnLive model, which is "you pay for the games, the streaming is free," correct?

Oh, Sony. The old tradition of unconditional loyalty to a lord is gone for most of the world and fading in Japan. You can't expect to treat your subjects like dirt and keep them as followers anymore. Hopefully the PS3 and Vita have taught you that lesson... but it seems that you aren't learning. We'll see, PS4.

I understand the benefit of waiting for Microsoft to make their announcements - then you can adjust your plan to match. But I think Sony needs to foster goodwill up front. Make good promises, then keep them - or better yet, surpass them. Sony NEEDS people to look favorably upon this new system immediately.


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